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Thread: What does God think?

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    What does God think?

    What Does God Think About the Existence
    of Many "Christian" Denominations?

    The gospel of Jesus records that He built one church and that all saved people were in that church. He prayed for unity and rebuked division. Denominations as we know them did not exist till centuries later. Yet today hundreds of denominations exist in the name of Christianity, claiming to be Christian. They are divided and contradict one another. This study examines the teaching of the Scriptures about the existence of denominationalism.
    Introduction:
    To the average person, "Christianity" includes hundreds of different denominations that disagree with one another in name, organization, doctrine, worship, and plan of salvation. Such a situation clearly constitutes division, not unity. Yet all the denominations claim to be Christian and to follow Jesus Christ.

    If we really want to please God, however, we must forsake what we want and practice what He wants.

    Ecclesiastes 12:13 - Man's whole duty is to fear God and keep His commands. We should be determined to do God's will, not our own.

    Matthew 16:24 - To follow Jesus one must deny himself. True religion does not consist of what pleases us. It is entirely a question of what pleases God.

    In this study we want to consider whether or not God is pleased by the existence of denominations. What does He really think about the religious division that exists today? Does He want unity instead? The only way to know what God thinks is to study His revelation, the Bible. So, what does the Bible say about denominationalism.


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    I. The Bible Concept of the Church

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    Ephesians 3:10,11 says the church is part of God's eternal wisdom. This shows that the church is important to God, so we should respect His will regarding it. What does He say should be our concept of the church, and does denominationalism fit that concept?

    A. Bible Meanings of the Word "Church"
    The word "church" is used two ways in the Bible:

    The church in the "universal" sense
    The "universal" church refers to the body or group of all saved people everywhere. It includes all who have been redeemed by Jesus' blood, have been forgiven of their sins, and have been born into His spiritual family. Bible examples of this usage are:

    Matthew 16:18 - Jesus promised to build His church. The church is built on Jesus and belongs to Him ("my church"). [Cf. 1 Cor. 3:11]

    Ephesians 5:23,25 - Jesus is Head of the church, and He is Savior of His body. He gave Himself for the church. So the church is the body of all people who have been saved by Christ.

    Acts 2:47 - The Lord added to the church those who were saved. The "universal" church consists of all saved people everywhere because, when God saves people, He puts them in the church. In this sense, the church is always singular.

    [See also Eph. 1:22,23; Col. 1:18,24; 1 Tim. 3:15; cf. 1 Cor. 12:12-14 to Acts 2:38; 22:16; Mk 16:16.]

    The church in the "local" sense
    The "local" church refers to a congregation of Christians in a region who have united themselves to work and worship together. According to the Bible, they have a pattern of organization, work that they are to do, and funds they use to do this work.

    In the Bible, Christians were not just members of the universal body of all

    saved people, but they also associated themselves into local churches. Here are some examples:

    Acts 8:1 - The church which was in Jerusalem.

    1 Corinthians 1:2 - The church of God which was at Corinth.

    1 Thessalonians 2:14 - Churches of God which were in Judea.

    Revelation 1:4,11 - The seven churches of Asia.

    Galatians 1:2 - The churches of Galatia.

    Note that, in this local sense, the word "church" can be used in the plural - "churches of Christ" (Rom. 16:16). Congregations existed in different localities, but they were not religiously divided. All had the same pattern of organization, doctrine, worship, salvation, etc.

    [See also Acts 11:22; 2 Cor. 1:1; 8:1; Gal. 1:22; 1 Cor. 16:1; Rom. 16:1,4; 1 Cor. 14:33.]

    B. The Denominational Concept of the Church
    Modern denominations include many local congregations, and they claim there is one universal church composed of all "saved" people. But they add something new - the denominations. All these "saved" people in all these local churches are now divided into denominations.

    The concept of a denomination, as commonly believed today, involves all the following elements:

    * Each denomination is an affiliation or confederation consisting of a number of local churches.

    * Each denomination has its own peculiar name, doctrine, organization, plan of worship, etc., which distinguishes it from other denominations.

    * Each denomination claims it is composed of Christians, but it does not claim to contain all faithful Christians. Each denomination believes there are faithful children of God in other denominations. "There are saved people in all the denominations." "We're all going to heaven, just by different routes." "One church is as good as another." It's just a matter of personal preference, like different kinds of cars, colors of clothes, etc. So "join the church of your choice."

    Ask any informed denominationalist, and he will confirm what we have said. Ask: "Are there saved Christians in your denomination?" He will say, "Yes." Ask: "Are there Christians in other denominations, who will go to heaven?" He will say, "Yes." Ask: "Does one have to be a member of your denomination to go to heaven?" He will say, "No." So each denomination claims to consist of some Christians, but not all Christians.

    A denominational preacher once said the following in a letter to me:

    "There is only one 'holy Christian Church,' of which Christ is the Head, but it is now made up of many denominations ... But faith in Christ is the first criterion of membership in the holy Christian Church, and we feel that such believers can be found in all Christian denominations."

    C. Denominationalism Differs from God's Plan.
    God's plan involves all saved people in one universal body, yet associated together in local churches. Denominationalism changes God's plan by adding the concept of denominational affiliations - associations of local churches that contain some of the saved but not all of the

    saved - organizations that are more than just local churches, but less than the universal church. Denominations were unknown in the Bible. They constitute an addition, a change in God's plan. Most people can easily read their Bibles and see that this is so.

    What does God think about unauthorized changes in His pattern?
    What difference does it make? Will God be pleased with people who defend the denominational concept?

    Galatians 1:6-9 - Any man is accursed if he preaches a gospel different from what is revealed in the New Testament. But denominationalism is different from the gospel. It is nowhere authorized in the gospel.

    2 John 9 - Whoever does not abide in Jesus' doctrine does not have God. Is denominationalism part of Jesus' teaching? No! It is not revealed in His word. Therefore, those who practice this unauthorized change have not God! [See also Rev. 22:18,19.]

    Is God pleased when people follow man's wisdom instead of His?
    The church is part of God's eternal wisdom in the Bible (Eph. 3:10,11). Denominations are not in the Bible, so they must have come from men. If we participate in them, we are following man's wisdom, not God's. What does God think about this?

    Proverbs 3:5,6 - We must not lean on our human wisdom, but must trust in God to guide us.

    Proverbs 14:12 - There are ways that seem right to men, but their end is death.

    Matthew 15:9,13,14 - Human traditions and commands make our service to God vain or empty. Everything religiously which God did not plant will be

    rooted up. By whose command do denominations exist? Who planted them? Not God, but man. Hence, they make people's worship and service to God vain and they will be rooted up.

    [See also Isa. 55:8,9; Jer. 10:23; Col.3:17; 1 Cor. 1:18-25; 2:1-5.]


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    II. The Bible Teaching About Unity

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    Each denomination has practices that contradict and disagree with the practices of other denominations. One says only immersion is true baptism; another says sprinkling is acceptable too. One says a child of God can fall from grace; another says this is impossible, etc. Surely this constitutes religious division and confusion.

    Yet the denominational concept says God will accept all this - people in all the groups please Him and will receive eternal life. "It doesn't matter what you believe as long as you worship God sincerely," etc. Is this really what the Bible teaches?

    A. Jesus' Prayer
    John 17:20-23 - Jesus prayed for all who believe on Him to be one as He and His Father are one. Jesus, the Head of the church, prayed for unity. Denominations claim that He is their head, yet they practice division!

    Someone may claim the denominations are all part of one universal church, though they contradict one another. But is this how Jesus and His Father were one? When did the Father and Son ever disagree about what church people should be members of? or about how to worship God? or about the plan of salvation? or about the organization of the church?

    When did the Father say to the Son: "I disagree with your practices, but it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you're sincere. We're all going to the same place anyway, so just join the church of your choice"??

    In what sense were the Father and the Son "one"? John 12:49,50 says they both taught the same commandments! True Bible unity consists of everybody doing the will of the Father! Those who promote other forms of "unity," while excusing the existence of denominational division, are actually rejecting and rebelling against Jesus' prayer for unity.

    [Cf. John 14:31; 15:10; 17:17.]

    B. Division at Corinth
    1 Corinthians 1:10-13 - Paul pled with the Corinthians that there be no divisions among them (verse 10). Do denominations obey this plea? Are there "no divisions among them"? Surely they are divided, so how can anyone excuse their existence and say God will accept them?

    Is Christ divided (verse 13)? Does He contradict Himself or teach contradictory things to His followers? Surely not. Such actions would make Him a hypocrite! How then can all the denominations be truly following Him and truly accepting His headship when they contradict one another? It must be true that some people are really not following Him and that is why the division exists.

    If Paul rebuked the division at Corinth, should we not rebuke the far greater division in denominationalism? Did Paul tell the Corinthians to just overlook their differences because they were all pleasing to God anyway? Not at all! He told them to cease their divisive practices and seek unity by practicing

    the true teachings of God (read chapters 5,12-14,15, etc.)

    C. Unity of the Spirit
    Ephesians 4:3-6 - We must keep the unity of the Spirit. This means that, for the seven things listed, there is only one of each in God's true plan.

    Specifically, there is one true God and Father. Can a person be a true Christian and believe in many gods? "It doesn't matter what god you worship as long as you are sincere. Worshipers of all gods are going to the same place, so just worship the god of your choice"?! No. There are many false gods, but only one true God.

    Likewise there is only one true body and only one true faith, and the body is Jesus' church (Eph. 1:22,23; 5:23-25; Col. 1:18,24). It is just as essential to believe in only one true body and only one true faith as it is to believe in only one true God. But denominationalism takes the one true body and chops it up into many disagreeing bodies having different and contradictory faiths.

    Just as there are many false gods but only one true God, so there are many false churches and many false faiths, but there is only one true church and only one true faith.

    [See also 1 Cor. 14:33; 3:3; 12:12,13,20; Phil. 1:27; Eph. 2:16; Gal. 5:19-21; Rom. 12:4,5.]


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    III. The Bible Concept of Truth

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    A. An Imaginary Church
    Despite the contradictory practices in denominationalism, we are told that it does not matter what church we attend, so just "join the church of our choice." Let us make up a church and

    see if it "does not matter" if we attend this church.

    Suppose we had a church that taught all the following things:

    * We follow the Bible as our sole guide in religion, but we also follow the Book of Mormon, the Catholic catechism, and Jehovah's Witness Watchtower publications as authority.

    * We believe that a child of God can so sin as to be eternally lost, but we also believe that it is impossible for a child of God to so sin as to be eternally lost.

    * We believe that immersion is the only true form of baptism, but we also practice sprinkling and pouring as valid forms of baptism.

    * We believe that man is justified by faith alone, but we also teach that obedience is essential to justification.

    * We believe that the seventh day of the week is the Christian sabbath and the first day of the week is a perversion, but we also believe that the first day of the week is the Christian sabbath for worshipping God.

    * We worship the God of the Bible as our only God and Jesus as our only Savior, but we also worship the sun, moon, stars, and Satan.

    What would you think of a church that believed and practiced all these contradictory doctrines? "Ridiculous! Hypocritical!" Yes, but when different churches teach these contradictory doctrines, some people tell us it "does not matter" which we join. Isn't that also ridiculous and hypocritical?

    Consider what denominationalism says about Jesus. We are told that "you can find Jesus in any of the churches." And "there are people in all the denominations that are following Jesus." But if Jesus is found in all the churches, though they teach all these contradic-

    tory doctrines, doesn't that make Him a hypocrite? And if all the churches are following Jesus, yet they are going in opposite directions, doesn't that mean Jesus is leading people in opposite directions? When people try to justify denominations, they make Jesus ridiculous and hypocritical!

    What is the real problem with our imaginary church? The problem is that no one could believe all these contradictory doctrines because truth does not contradict itself! This is the real issue. Jesus teaches truth, and truth does not contradict itself. Denominations contradict one another. Therefore, they cannot all be teaching truth, and they cannot all be following Jesus!

    B. The Importance of Truth
    The Bible emphasizes the importance of truth.

    John 17:17 - God's word is truth.

    John 8:32 - We must know the truth to be made free from sin (v34).

    1 Peter 1:22,23 - Obeying the truth is what makes us free from sin.

    2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 - Believing error and lies will condemn us. There is one true faith, just as there is only one true God (Eph. 4:3-6).

    The fundamental consequence of denominationalism is that error is just as good as truth! If the denominational concept is true, then all denominations are acceptable to God even though they flatly contradict one another regarding worship, salvation, etc. This means error is just as good as truth and unrighteousness is just as good as righteousness. Denominationalism must be wrong because it says that error does not condemn.


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    Inactive Member imported_ut1's Avatar
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    Re: What does God think?

    The whole purpose of the Pauline letters was to straighten out some errors in the early churches. While some were living close to an ideal walk, still others were holding onto pagan practices, particularly the predominantly Gentile congregations. Other more Jewish-dominant denominations were trying to hold onto their own Jewish ceremonies and practices that were essentially negated by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
    For churches that lived so closely to our Master's time on earth to be in such disarray at times, doesn't it follow that our modern day churches would have some of the same problems?
    Here is the earmark for a true Christian church:
    If a church teaches/preaches Jesus Christ as virgin-born, as one who walked the earth while being both fully God and fully man, as one who became our Savior through His death, burial, and resurrection, as One who sits at the right hand of God, and as the sole Source of Salvation, then that church is a legitimate Christian church.
    Take out any one of these criteria, then that church cannot hold the claim as a true Christian church....per God's words through Peter, Paul, John, and James.
    "Yes, there are two paths you can go by
    But in the long run
    There's still time to change the road you're on."

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    Re: What does God think?

    I agree with your post.... but they are errors in some teachings would you not agree? Some believe in sprinkling for Baptism and others believe in going under... Baptism has nothing to do with Salvation.. but one of those is wrong according to scripture... I am talking about things like this... I do not think all denominations set out to be wrong or lead people in the wrong direction but sometimes unknowingly this happens.Doesn'y actually mean that Christ has not saved you , but at the same time we must teach what the Bible teaches... that is all I am trying to say.Some churches do teach what you said - The Death, the burial, and the resurrection ect; but at the ame time the teach false things... that can lead to bigger things.

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    Inactive Member imported_ut1's Avatar
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    Re: What does God think?

    Baptism is not essential for Salvation, but is an outward and visible sign to the world of your decision and commitment. Although the baptismal technique is not defined in the Bible, there are plenty of reasons to deduce that immersion was the method they used then. Just my opinion.
    "Yes, there are two paths you can go by
    But in the long run
    There's still time to change the road you're on."

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    Inactive Member plantsman's Avatar
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    Re: What does God think?

    You a Baptist?

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    Inactive Member imported_ut1's Avatar
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    Re: What does God think?

    Yes. I currently am a member of a Southern Baptist church, but my background is very diversified, mostly from Baptist, Methodist, and Pentacostal influences. "The Baptist Faith and Message", available at most book stores, pretty clearly defines exactly what I believe.
    "Yes, there are two paths you can go by
    But in the long run
    There's still time to change the road you're on."

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    Re: What does God think?

    The Definition of Baptism

    The word "baptizo"? is used nearly every time we see the word baptize, baptism, or Baptist. The word "baptizo"? in the Greek means "to make whelmed; fully wet"? according to the Strong's Exhaustive Greek Dictionary. The same root word "bapto"? is translated "dipped"? or "dip"? three times in the New Testament. Notice Luke 16:24, John 13:26 and Rev. 19:13. These are all items that have been submerged in a liquid. In Luke, it was the finger being dipped in water. In John, it was the bread being dipped in the sop. In Revelation, it was the vesture of the Lord that had been dipped in blood. There is no denying that the word baptize very strongly implies a total, complete immersion. Let us look at this even further.

    In the New Testament, there are different Greek words for "?sprinkle' One is "?rhaino' and the other is "rhantismos'. The words "?sprinkle', and "?sprinkling' are all the same basic word. In all of the uses of the word, it is clear that the action being performed is indeed a sprinkling of a substance, usually blood. I said all that to say this. If sprinkling was an allowable mode of baptism, why is only the word "?baptizo' used to describe the action?

    There is at least 4 different Greek words for the English word "pour"?. We see the word pour mentioned in Matt. 26:7, John 13:5 and many times in Revelation 16, just to mention a few. So if pouring was a proper administration of baptism, why is that word never mentioned during a baptism? Again, the only word to describe the word baptism is the Greek word, "?baptizo'.

    Biblically, unless one has been immersed, they can not claim to have even been baptized! The very definition of the word states that!

    B. The Details of Baptism

    There are plenty of additional proofs as to the Biblical mode of baptism. Let us look first at Matthew 3:6. The very first time baptism is described in Scripture, we see those that are being baptized in the river. "And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins."? Matt. 3:6 There is no possible way to misunderstand this verse. It didn't say they were at the river or near the river; it says they were "in Jordan"?.

    Why don't we look at the Lord Jesus Christ's baptism? Surely his example should shed some light on the proper way of doing things. In Matthew 3:13-17, we see the account of Jesus being baptized of John the Baptist.

    Matthew 3:13-17 "Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."?

    He asked John to baptize him and John didn't want to. John wanted Jesus to baptize him, but Jesus insisted that he be baptized. In verse 16, the Bible says that Jesus came up straightway out of the water. Is there any doubt that Jesus recognized that baptism must be performed IN WATER?

    The reason that Jesus was baptized was in his own words "for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness."? In all actuality, if Jesus had never been baptized, no one would have blamed him. I mean, why would someone that was going to experience the REAL death, burial and resurrection need to show a picture of it through baptism? He did it to illustrate to us the correct attitude to have concerning this ordinance.



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    HB Forum Owner R0cketer's Avatar
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    Re: What does God think?

    Wow, glad you pulled that one off the top of your head.
    Or you're reading someone or some Biblical study guide (online or other) and what a learned individual says. Of course, if you go look in any place that sells Biblical study guides, you'll see more than one. Wonder why? Could it be interpretation? Could it be that some research further? Could it be that some will go until they find something that goes to what they believe in and stop? Yes, yes, yes.

    I'm going to put this in simple terms for you. Go take a Spanish class or any other foreign language class. Put a sentence and have it translated. You'll get different translations, words meaning slightly different but generally the same, etc.

    Honestly, and I say this in the nicest possible manner I can. Christians such as yourself, cause more people to turn away from God than you will EVER bring.

    Why is that? Because you worry to much about the little things instead of worrying about the most and only important thing. Slight differences in denominations beliefs are not going to be whats important to God, thats what important to men in churches.

    Oh if you want to, you can find things that will translate that women shouldn't be involved in the church, study guides that will "prove" that women shouldn't wear anything but dresses or no makeup. Heck, you can find some who will prove that men shouldn't shave or get haircuts. Better not go to a doctor. I mean if you want to go literally by whats in the Bible, I am fairly confident that a lot of your very actions/deeds/activities are not in there. The Bible is a guide. Very few places does it say DO this or DO not do this. Yes there are some, we have commandments but there are churches who probably think even coming on a message board such as this means you are sinning against God. Interpretation. Ok you get saved tonight, you plan on being baptized this weekend but you die tomorrow. Did you not finish? Were you not fully Christian because you hadn't made a public display? Yes I know you don't have to be baptized to be saved, but some think otherwise, and if you watch/read what they have, they can prove things just as well and have their own study guides that will prove it just as much as the ones you find that prove otherwise. I don't expect you to agree with this.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it.

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    Inactive Member the_alienist's Avatar
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    Re: What does God think?

    AMEN! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/getsmile.tmp007816300.gif[/img]
    I make Machiavelli look like a weenie.

  10. #10
    Inactive Member imported_ut1's Avatar
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    Re: What does God think?

    "Slight differences in denominations beliefs are not going to be whats important to God, thats what important to men in churches."

    Wise and insightful words, my friend.
    "Yes, there are two paths you can go by
    But in the long run
    There's still time to change the road you're on."

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